Wise Little League Football sign-ups

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheBeast</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elp6n</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And another thing. You try looking into the faces of 5, 6, 7 year old kids at the end of the season, and tell them good job and that's it. Not too many kids would want to play.
When they get those trophies, their little faces light up, they think they've really done something.</div></div>

Why make them THINK they've done something when in reality they've not earned a winners trophy?? That's teaching them absolutely nothing. This is supposed to be a learning experience.

And if "good job" isn't enough for a kid on a losing team, then that's really sad. It goes back to the instant gratification and the development of the "me me me" generation.

When I was in school if a team/group I was in didn't win, then we just didn't win and hoped for better next time around. It made us work harder. And for the winners, their win is greatly dimished because even the losers are told they're winners.

Kids are being ruined and turned into horrible people by being told they're entitled to everything and they're always great and perfect and wonderful.

Why not have them EARN things anymore??
Is it worse to raise an earner, a goal maker? Or a kid who thinks he's prince of all he sees, with his hand sticking out all the time? </div></div>

Exactly why would you want to instil false hope and deceive them into thinking they've done something when they haven't. </div></div>

Give trophies to the younger ages in T-Ball, Coach-pitch, Machine-pitch, Minor League, etc. Kids loves them and they only cost 3-4 dollars. My 7 year old has slept with participation trophies she has gotten for dance class. Until you have a little one, you don't know what they mean to them. Let them be little and let them have fun (and let them sleep in the middle).

When you start playing by the rules and keeping score, then trophies, medals, plaques, etc. should be earned for accomplishments. That(playing by official rules) typically doesn't start in LL baseball before 9 years old.

Also, I know a lot of people do it but Little League regulations prohibit funding trophies for players. Our solution was to collect $4 from each parent at the end of the season. I don't think we gave trophies for anything other than T-ball anyway.

As for the registration fees in Little League Baseball, $35 comes nowhere close to covering the costs of charter fees, insurance, uniforms, equipment, utilities, field maintenance, etc. I've been there, done that, spent several years on the Little League BOD. I wouldn't be president of the a local Little League for love nor money, cause you can't win.

It is my understanding that is why each team has a sponsor to pay for the jersey's and hats. The fees the parents pay is for insurance and trophies, most of it goes to insurance. The point is the parents paid the money, the kids have no trophies, some coaches are paying out of pocket for their kids, and two groups of trophies were picked up from Impressions and have never been paid for. This is a problem. The league was not ran well this year, it was scheduled badly, and teams from Coeburn and Clintwood opted to not play us even though we were scheduled to play. I don't know what the answer is. But I know a lot of parents who are planning on not allowing their child to play next year. This is very bad for the future of Wise baseball. This is a very sad situation.

Everybody needs to attend the October Little League meeting and elect a new board! I agree with Sportsfan, this year was a mess. I coached the Pirates Minor League team. The Minor League was on their own. NO COMMUNICATION!!!
Now, as for the trophies, the kids should get them. I don't understand how some of you could honestly think that giving a child a trophy for playing is instilling false hope. It shows them that by being a part of a team you can earn rewards. These kids that come out and participate are winners. It beats them setting on the internet all night. They are getting exercise, fellowship, and learning discipline. I don't know if you all have kids that are opposing it, but I do. I deal with these kids all year in various sports. The trophy that means nothing to you all, means the world to them. It may be the only thing they ever get to show an accomplishment. And yes, playing the whole season is an accomplishment. It may not be winning a super bowl or state title, but they learn to finish what they start. I'm not attacking any of you. I have nothing aagainst anyone on the forum. I'm a bid kid at heart and I love teaching these kids. And if a $3-8 trophy gives them drive, then what more do you want from them?

I don't have a problem with giving them something for participation per say, i.e. a t-shirt or certificate. But to give out trophies is completely different, it takes away from the significance and meaning of a trophy.

I still have to disagree. A trophy is a symbol. A symbol of completing something. The trophy can have different meaning. To see Coach Turner lift that state trophy meant everything to me at that point in time. But when I was 8,9, etc that trophy at the end of the season meant the world to me at that point in time. I knew I had earned a trophy for competing and completing the season. The first place teams usually got a bigger trophy.

You're right SC92...trophies are a symbol...of championships.

Playing ball growing up, when I played with a team in a tournament of any type and we lost, even if it was close and we lost--I didn't want the runner up trophy. All that did was remind me that no matter how good we did, we didn't win.

There's a reason why they say losing teams in bowl games or something like that go home "empty handed". If you don't win, you don't get the nice, big, shiny trophy. Competing should be the primary motivation, with winning second, and then if you get a trophy--then that's nice. If we're focusing kids this early on a trophy then they're there for the wrong reasons to start with.

I agree with a lot of what you said. If they are there just for a trophy and not for the love of the game or even the desire to play and compete, then yes, they are there for the wrong reason. And the runner up trophy was never great. My philosohy on dealing with the kids is this. While I teach, I emphasis FUN. Have fun with the kids, and they will have fun and not pay as much attention to the hard work. I teach fun and then win. All my kids play, period. We lost a game last year because all of my kids played. But we are better this year because they have that experience gained from last season. I benched one kid for disciplinary reasons, but he played in the game up until that. Winning is important, but learning and having fun (at the age I deal with) is first and formost. Maybe they don't NEED a trophy, but it's worth it to pass them out and see the kids face light up.

the 3 x 3 on basketball sounds like a great idea. when you play 8 x 8 like they do in texas like i said it makes kids get involved as opposed to just 2 or 3 players making all the plays. this way when they get in 8th grade instead of just having maybe 2 guys who have played runnin back for all the way through p-nut football you have 8. Instead of having 1 kid who was always qb you have 4.

And if these kids receive good coaching at a young level it will only help the high school program that much better. But most important it will give all the kids a chance to play, have fun, and learn the game, which are really the most important stuff.

Yeah you could cut the field down, too if you wanted, esp the sidelines.

I have never really seen 8 on 8 games. I would be fun to try something different. But, I would rather play the other towns. I'm not downing the 8 on 8, I just like the traditional way better. I do see your point though.

I saw you bench your safety for a few plays at St. Paul for loafing too. He deserved it. I was in the process of walking over and asking you to sit him for that half-hustle biz when you sat him down. He worked a little harder and ran a little faster when he got back in though ;). You do a good job with those boys. They do indeed have fun (and learn alot as well).

I appreciate that. I try to be fair and understanding. Having parent support makes my job a ton easier. I can't emphasis that enough.

I have been on the coaching end as well as the parenting end. It is a good deal when the parent sits and watches the coach do his job. I look at it like this: If you can do any better, than your arse should have been there volunteering as a coach. Otherwise, shut your yap. Too many parents wanting to live their sports dreams through little junior. I want my children to be good. What parent doesn't? But part of being good is hustling, paying attention, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, listening to the coach. If you see that he isn't doing what you know he is capable of, and he is making the TEAM (remember no I in TEAM) suffer, you'd hear it from me quicker if you left him in than if you pulled him/left an ineffective him in.

100% correct!!!!

How many kids would have came out if the registrtion fee wasnt $50?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BORNRED</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How many kids would have came out if the registrtion fee wasnt $50? </div></div>


$50 that IS steep (but equipment does not buy itself) and the alturnative is turnning the kids into traveling salesmen [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

50 bucks is nothing for SWVANs to watch their kids play the only thing that really matters in life (inserting sarcasm here of course), their beloved football. Families spend that on one Friday night in LPDland (considering kids do not get a break at the gate, but that's another rant). I hear parents [censored] about paying the reg fee, but you see them at Applebee's chowing down, knowing that they just spent that 50 if not more on grub. The price was raised from 35-50 since the town decided not to help out with equipment costs.Fifty bucks is steep (especially in this area), but I'll cough up the extra $15 for the peace of mind knowing that my son's equipment is safer/has been upgraded. It is a violent contact sport, and I feel better about better equipment.

I thought the fees had gone up because we needed the money. But I was wrong on that one. The kids get to keep their jersey's this year. So when they put it on this year, it's theirs. They don't have to turn it in at the end of the season. Made for some very happy boys.

That is true. The kids get to keep the jerseys this year. In reality, it is not different than last year. We paid 35 to sign up and the 10 at the end of the season for the jersey. There is a 5 difference, but that covers the price hike in the jerseys. JJK QB Club doesn't make any profit on the reg fee. That is why I have got the kids selling the Little Caesars Pizza Kits. We lost 20% of our gear after last season. That is expensive, even in youth sizes. B.I. and I are trying to shop around and find the best deals/quality, but it takes time. By the next few seasons, if things go the way I would like to see them go, Wise will have a Class A youth football set up. With that being said, we will be working the Norton Wal-Mart enterance on August 18th taking donations. Loose change and dollars add up. Keep us in mind.

I have been an avid reader on this forum for quite some time, when most posts were from "anonymous". If I disagreed with some posters, I kept it to myself just as I did when I agreed. However, I have to disagree with anyone who thinks that a kid does not deserve a trophy. Everything about children's lives these days seems to be so serious. Instead of pumping their legs to send a swing soaring toward the sky, kids spend afternoons sitting in front of a screen watching TV or playing a video or computer game. I remember when I was a little kid and was handed my first trophy to this day and I bet you do too. Did I hit the game winning home run... no. Did I hit the game winning shot to left field...no. Did our team win the championship...heck no. We did play and have alot of fun though.
In no way did that trophy trigger in my adolescent mind that I should somehow receive handouts for the rest of my life because I am now the "man"? with a trophy. At a young age, a child is likely to enjoy a sport more if allowed to learn in a relaxed atmosphere while having fun and receiving support and encouragement from their coaches and parents. Athletics for youngsters should be thought of as a means of entertainment and recreation. Adults shouldn't pressure a young child to focus only on winning so they are the only one with a trophy. Have fun with your child and that trophy they got for "losing"? because before you know it, those little footsteps will grow up.
Take it or leave it, it's just my opinion.

AMEN!!!

I think to a certain age you need to get as many kids involved as possible and keep it as fun as possible. But I also think that success deserves to be awarded. Maybe give the kids whose team won the championship a slightly bigger trophy or a t-shirt that says Little League Champs, I don't know.

Personally I think competiton is great. If your not competitive it is really really hard to be successful in today's world. Once they get into high school they have to develope this mentality.

Look at the best programs around, GC, Norton, and PV in football, Kelly in baseball, etc. When that team steps off the bus you can see the fire in there eyes. Success breeds success. For the most part it is the same few teams every year at the top of the pack in the lpd and the region in every sport.

But I think the main thing we need to teach the younglin's playing is that there are only two things you can control in sports. Your attitude and your effort.

But like I said once they reach a certain age, they need to develope that winning mentality. Because if they are lucky, it will carry over in there lives long after they have hung there cleats up for the last time.

I have a quote a friend of mine once told me, but I won't post it here due to respect for the kids reading this forum. But here is the link.
http://www.hostboard.com/LDPforum/ubbthr...ge=0#Post202369
It is a little vulgar, but I think it gets the point across.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CowboysandSkynyrd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have been an avid reader on this forum for quite some time, when most posts were from "anonymous". If I disagreed with some posters, I kept it to myself just as I did when I agreed. However, I have to disagree with anyone who thinks that a kid does not deserve a trophy. Everything about children's lives these days seems to be so serious. Instead of pumping their legs to send a swing soaring toward the sky, kids spend afternoons sitting in front of a screen watching TV or playing a video or computer game. I remember when I was a little kid and was handed my first trophy to this day and I bet you do too. Did I hit the game winning home run... no. Did I hit the game winning shot to left field...no. Did our team win the championship...heck no. We did play and have alot of fun though.
In no way did that trophy trigger in my adolescent mind that I should somehow receive handouts for the rest of my life because I am now the "man"? with a trophy. At a young age, a child is likely to enjoy a sport more if allowed to learn in a relaxed atmosphere while having fun and receiving support and encouragement from their coaches and parents. Athletics for youngsters should be thought of as a means of entertainment and recreation. Adults shouldn't pressure a young child to focus only on winning so they are the only one with a trophy. Have fun with your child and that trophy they got for "losing"? because before you know it, those little footsteps will grow up.
Take it or leave it, it's just my opinion.
</div></div>


I wasn't going to post on this subject because I for one have 2 boys and I know what it is like to see their face when given a trophy. I also know what it is like to see their face when they are on the losing end of a game. A trophy can mean so many different things, especially when a child is so young and they are finding the love of the game. Believe me a child knows when his team has lost and giving him a trophy isn't going to change the outcome of the game in his mind. These are the times of their life right now, for goodness sakes why would anyone with children oppose to giving these little kids trophies. It is not a trophy saying they won, but a trophy for participation and trying. It is no different than when our kids are growing up and we reward them for certain things they do. Some reward their kids for making honor roll, doing chores around the house, they get allowance and etc.. Not all parents are the same, maybe some don't reward their kids and that is fine. I am sure they are just as good of a parent as those that do reward their kids in some way. I was one growing up that didn't get allowance or rewards for good grades, but got grounded if I even brought home a C. But I am a parent who rewards my kids at times. Heck I even buy things for them they don't really need, just because they want it. I don't do that all the time though. I myself buy things for me that I don't need.

For the most part, kids that turn out to be good leaders, good sportsmenship, and good behavior is taught that at home and by their teachers,coaches at school. It don't really matter if they come from a losing team or winning team or if they got a trophy even if they didn't win.

As far as trophies go, I don't see giving a kid a trophy unless it is their final year being able to compete in a sport (tee-ball, little league, p-nut football, ll basketball, etc), or if they win a championship. That way, if a kid plays he is sure to get at least one before he or she isn't able to compete at a particular lever anymore. IMO giving them out to every kid every year is just overkill, and it devalues the trophy to the kids in the long run.
I don't know how it is now..but in BSG back in the day in p-nut football every kid got a patch for participation, the champs got an additional patch from the lions club and in addition got a medal. In baseball, trophies were given to champs (T-ball had a trophy for kids playing their final year)..and I don't know what basketball got cuz I hate that sport and didn't play.

I still feel that the kids don't focus on the trophy as much as WHY they got it. Like I said earlier, the trophy is a symbol. A symbol of participation, winning, or an individual accomplishment. I don't think it's overkill to give a trophy for competing. And I agree the champs should get something special, be it a medal or patch or bigger trophy. Everyone has their own out look on this issue. None are neccessarily wrong. Giving a kid a trophy after the season is not different than me buying my son a video game or giving him money for good grades. Long after he has wore out the game or spent the money, that trophy will still be there. When he is older, he will be able to pick up that trophy and think back to that season and sport and pull a few cherished or forgotten memories from his childhood. I don't know about you all, but I miss my childhood and revel in those random memories that jump at me from time to time.

I just think giving trophies for participation on the final year of eligibility encourages participation at the next level they step into. Like I said, givin one every year cheapens the accomplishment of participation. But, most kids in their final year will see the field and get a taste of what the game is like even if they didn't participate every year. The cost of giving trophies every year could provide much more equiptment etc. for all the kids as well.

Mine is 8, he made me put a special shelf for his baseball and basketball trophies. He earned all of them. The hard work of showing up for practices, playing every game, trying his best to get on base or score and helping his teammates was how he earned them. He never once tried to get out of cleaning his room, doing his chores, etc. because someone gave him a trophy. When they are that young the final score doesn't matter. The accomplishment of starting the season and sticking with it until the last game is enough of a victory for them. They finished something they started and that is a great accomplishment.

Giving a non-winning kid a trophy reminds me of the scene from Meet the Fockers where they're standing in front of Gaylord's trophy wall: full of 9th place ribbons ("I didn't know they even made 9th place ribbons"), and other loser-memorabelia.

BTW - showing up for practice and being there for games is just a basic obligation of being on a team - if they're going to be on a team they have to fulfill the basic requirements. You dont get prizes for fulfilling basic obligations.

That's like saying a kid gets a trophy for just bringing home his school assignments. It's an obligation.

Funny how people with no kids get on here and talk like they know whats going on. To say little kids dont deserve trophies for participation for "little league" and "p-nut" leagues is ridiculous. And who gets off saying it gives them false hope? WTF is that about? Has anyone ever seen a little kids face light up when they see that trophy? They talk about it, brag about it to family, and show it off. Sometimes thats all these little guys/girls have. No wonder the majority on here don't have kids.


/end rant

Just because I personally haven't birthed a child doesn't mean the other children in my life (ages 4-11) aren't as important as if they were my own - I am active in their lives.

Just like everyone else on here (childless or otherwise) I was a kid once too As a kid I participated in organized events. I remember what it was like to be in both a winning group and a non-winning group. We didn't get trophies and awards for every little thing. As a matter of fact we had awards banquets, where only the highest achievers received awards. The others went home empty-handed (this in kids as young as 9). Times have changed - kids are now being handed everything (moreso than when I was a kid). Its getting worse with every generation.

The line I hear the most anymore? "I just want him/her to have everything I didn't have as a child" which apparently includes lack of: discipline, goals, work, earning.

I guess I am forced to think how us older folks talk sometimes. We see the spoiled to death kids and think how good they got it, how they get everything handed to them, how lots won't work 'lower' jobs because they think its beneath them. To me, this idea is why. Hey give something for participation, great, but if "junior" works really hard and achieves really great at little league and "Bubba" does nothing, and you give them both the same reward, what are you teaching? You're teaching Junior not to try to much because it really doesn't matter, and you're teaching Bubba not to worry because you get the same as someone who works hard.

Best I recall, we didn't get a trophy for participation, playing the games was our reward for participation, we knew we had to be there at practices if we wanted to play. Now at the end of the year, normally our coach (with some help from the league) would take us out for pizza or something. That was our trophy and of course we would talk about who would be back next year and how they would have to work hard and get better for the next year, and would also wish the ones going to the next level good luck.

Yeah everybody wants to win, and hey maybe if you're dealing with little kids, give them something, a patch, a t-shirt, someting, but allow them to know that there is people who win, and that participation isn't the same.

I am definitely not one for coddling kids. I am ultra competitive and think everyone should be of the same mindset, which unfortunately is not the case.

BUT, I don't mind giving young kids starting out a trophy for participation. Its great to see their faces light up for them, and I think it encourages them to come back out and play again for those that are on the fence about the sport. This in turn I think makes them better socially, whether or not they end up sticking it out in HS or whatever, or have the top end competitive mindset. What I don't like is not keeping score, and saying everyone is a winner afterward. That goes more toward showing winning, losing, and how hard you need to work to get better as a team, and individual. I don't have a problem with the winners getting bigger trophies or whatnot, but everyone should be rewarded for playing to an extent.

Now, I think of this at the little league level and such. As they mature, fewer rewards should be handed out. Heck, at that high school level, making all-district, or all-region is a joke anymore. Selecting multiple people at a singe position is a crock IMO, and cheapens the "achievement".

The thing is, we are talking about kids, building their self-confidence, rewarding them for even showing up for practices and games, many don't. They see how much work goes into playing a game, and quit. The kids are rewarded for not quitting. Yeah, there are those that stick with it that don't work as hard or play as hard as others, and they get their particpation trophy with everyone else at the end of the season. The major difference is, that little trophy will mean more to the one that worked hard for it, than the one that didn't. The difference is, eventually the kids that won't put in the time and effort that is required to play sports, go away. You usually see them walking the track on Friday nights. The kids that we are talking about, that work hard, and deserve awards no matter what the final scores have been, are the ones who will be there everyday after schoool to practice, and won't miss a game, as long as they're healthy. I have personally seen kids 7-12 years of age play through pain, health problems, size problems (too small and too big) for their age. I've seen them play in bitter cold, wind, rain, mud, and blistering heat. But they do it, because they love it. A trophy is something for them to hold on to during a time when their memories and attention generally is not so long. It is something for them to be proud of, to prove that they have accomplished something in their lives. Mine loves being a part of the team. He gets really upset if he feels that because he missed a play, and the team loses, or the score is close, he feels that his one mess up is the reason the team lost. We know that isn't true, because one player does not make a team, and I explain that to him. Does it change how he feels, not really, he just knows how much I love him. But also, it makes him work harder to not make the same mistake.
The whole point of this argument has been, whether or not anyone thinks our kids "deserve" the trophies or not, is that we parents paid for them, and the kids have not received them, plus one of our businesses that did make up some for two teams, which have been picked up, has not been paid for them. There is something seriously wrong with Wise Little League. They say they're broke. A whole lot of parents are wanting to know what happened to the money.

No one's saying the kids don't deserve to get something for playing the season--it's just that a trophy should be the one thing that goes to the champs. You may get your shirt, you may get your hat, certificate, trip to Pizza Hut, whatever else...but if you're not a champ, you don't get the trophy. I mean, if you want to give each kid a participation trophy--make sure that's what it is and that they know that's what it stands for...then give the kids that actually won the championship another bigger trophy that says they're champs. When they see that, they'll feel a sense of accomplishment by winning the title, and then the other kids will see that and work hard to get that other trophy.

These days I think people are too much into expecting to get something just because they "show up". They show up to school, expect to at least pass a class. They show up to work, expect regular pay raises every 6 months. And on and on...it's a bad cycle.

I think that has always been the idea in our little league programs. When you got your trophy you were announed by your team, and the champs went last, and it was announced that you were the champs.

Wise doesn't have anything like that. The kids play, the coaches pick who they want on all-stars, that's it. There is no special award for the best team.

Since we got a little off track, I want to remind everyone that Wise is having youth football signups on Saturday, August 11 from 12pm-2pm. See you there.